Iraq War Foes Were All Correct

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Another Day, Another Dollar
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The French were right.

The liberals were right.

The peaceniks were right.

True conservatives were right.

Veterans opposed to the war - I hear from more of them than you might imagine - were also right. They said this war was based on lies, and it was. They said this war, like most wars, would lead to more chaos and killing, and it has.

Now some in the Bush administration are telling the world that the car bombing of United Nations headquarters in Iraq is evidence that our policy is right.

How illogical can you be? Insurgents blow up oil pipelines and water mains; American soldiers get killed or maimed almost daily. Demonstrations are ongoing. And the biggest blow from the Iraqi resistance so far - destruction of U.N. headquarters in Iraq - is presented by the Bush team as evidence that our policy is correct because - because - because this proves terrorists are really, really bad.

Duh. We all know terrorists are really, really bad. That's why it's best not to give them more chaos in which to thrive. That's why it's best not to stir up new nests unnecessarily as we did by invading Iraq.

The Soviets couldn't win in Afghanistan, and I'll be surprised if, in five years or seven, American-style democracy has taken hold in Iraq. Like Afghanistan under the Russians, Iraq has become the rallying point for a growing jihad.

It all makes for mesmerizing news, and I've spent lots of time tuned to the daily media looking for evidence to support my gut feeling that this war, like most wars, was based on lies and misconceptions from the start. You don't have to look very hard these days. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

Every public argument for making war on Iraq has broken down. Let's start with the biggest:

- Weapons of mass destruction: None has been found. I'm sure that, at some point, evidence will mysteriously appear to show Iraq had a weapons program, but we already knew that, and to prove they had a program is a far cry from finding the tons of anthrax and chemical bombs, the armed missiles and mobile labs, the remote drones and nuclear components the Bush team scared us with almost daily in its drive to war.

Speaking of nukes, Bush's allegations were based almost solely on documents he apparently knew were forged. What could be more damning? Bottom line, if WMDs existed, they're now in the hands of terrorists or unfriendly governments or they're up for grabs in the Iraqi desert some place. Either way, it's a bad result.

- The link to al-Qaida: The myth that Iraq had significant ties to al-Qaida was based on a hospital visit to Iraq by one man and another meeting in a third country that likely never took place. No evidence has surfaced for an Iraqi-al-Qaida link. Ironically, Bush's misguided war now has forged just such a link. Osama bin Laden recently called on all Muslims to oppose our occupation of Iraq, and they appear to be responding.

- Iraq would welcome us as liberators: It happened only in a few places, and some of those appeared stage-managed. Now Iraqis are criticizing and demonstrating and shooting Americans. We've become occupiers. In the process we've killed, maimed, destroyed the Iraqi infrastructure and caused the loss of priceless cultural artifacts from the dawn of civilization. Some of our actions can be justified, but being justified and being wise are different things.

- We'd be out in 60 days, leaving behind a democracy that would take root, then blossom across the Middle East: Well, if majority rule flowers in Iraq, Shiites will run the place, as they do in Iran. That's who the majority is.

- Saddam Hussein is an evil man who must be destroyed. As this is written, he's still at large. All thinking people hope he's brought in, preferably alive, so he can shed more light on those who helped him in his rise to power, including some now serving Bush.

- Now, as I say, the car-bombing of U.N. headquarters in Iraq is being used as proof we're in the right. Two points: One, like several thousand others, those U.N. workers would be alive today except for the will to empire by Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Condoleezza Rice, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle and a few others who are pulling the strings.

Two. If, in Country X, the power is out, the water's out, the oil pipeline is burning, unemployment tops 60 percent, murder and rape are daily occurrences, the treasury is looted, the museums are looted, official history is a tool for propaganda, and U.N. headquarters are bombed, then the ruler of Country X should be held accountable, right?

Well, Iraq is Country X. Bush is its ruler.


http://www.rense.com/general40/foes.htm
 

CDL

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If you think the country doesnt agree with Bush and his party, then I suggest you go to Pinnacle and bet the Dems to win back the office in 2004 at +200.
 

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Its a long time until the election CDL. If things keep going the way they are at home and abroad, look for that number to drop quickly.

The Democrats are going to attempt to "get out the vote" this time. They don't have to still voters that went for Bush last time. They just need to focus on the people that went for Nader and the people that didn't vote. That combined with the majority that went for Gore and what does that spell? If, and its a big "if" this happens, Bush is in trouble. You can talk about recounts, hanging chads and Supreme Court until you are blue in the face. But what beat Al Gore was losing his own state (Tennessee). Losing Bill Clintons state (Arkansas) and the Ralph Nader vote.
 

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Its a hollow victory.

They will kill our guys, until they leave.
And when we are gone they will butcher each other.
Iraq looks like it will become the next Lebanon.
 

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Throw in New Hampshire and we think exactly alike in regards to the 2000 Presidential election. I mean exactly.


wil.
 

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I actually sent Nader an E-mail after the election, (before the Fla. fiasco) I was couteous and just asked if he felt if he did his country any good by putting Bush in office. Alas no answer. Losing Tenn. and Ark. were key, and if you look at the final numbers New Hampshire with only 3 electoral votes would have made the Fla. result moot. The state is in a Democratic region but is known to be a political hot potato. I believe neither party made great efforts to win the state in the presedential race. Pity it would have made all the difference because I believe Al Gore could have won the state with a major effort, but who knew.



wil.
 

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I'll tell you another state we can throw in the mix, West Virginia. Had went Democratic in Presidential races since I can remember. But then again little or no effort to win the state. I guess they figured it was a foregone conclusion that it would go Democratic again. Theres 5 more electoral votes. I hope some lessons were learned from the last election.

As far as Ralph Nader goes, I guess he was ashamed to return your email because he knew you were right. I heard him say "nothing could be worse than getting another Bush in the White House". Well, he knew the votes he would get would come from Gore. I think it was a personal thing he had against the Democratic Party. He had an "I'll show them attitude" toward them. He did.....he help put Bush in office.
 

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Nader cut off his nose to spite his face. He says he wanted to get the necessary 5% (I think its 5) of the vote to get funding for the 2004 election, for the Green Party, another election they cannot win. In reality he holds a very obvious grudge against the Democratic Party that cost them the White House. His run was a selfish and useless attempt for personal regognition. He could have easily backed out and worked with the Dems. in conjunction with his platform and acheived a lot more for Green Party initiatives. IMHO.

wil.
 

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Originally posted by wilheim:
Nader cut off his nose to spite his face. He says he wanted to get the necessary 5% (I think its 5) of the vote to get funding for the 2004 election, for the Green Party, another election they cannot win. In reality he holds a very obvious grudge against the Democratic Party that cost them the White House. His run was a selfish and useless attempt for personal regognition. He could have easily backed out and worked with the Dems. in conjunction with his platform and acheived a lot more for Green Party initiatives. IMHO


Very good points Wil.
Also, another point worth bringing up. I think it was a mistake for the Gore camp not to send Bill Clinton out on the campaign trail. He could've been a difference maker in a lot of areas including the states we mentioned above. Do you remember during the last few weeks of the campaign, Bush was making up significant ground on Gore in the California polls? They decided to send Clinton out there for a few days. Not only did Gore win California, he won it big. Now Bill Clinton wasn't the only reason, but he was a big part of it.
 

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Now that's some funny shit, I'll be checking to see if they move the line. LMFAO!
 

There's always next year, like in 75, 90-93, 99 &
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by outandup:
Now that's some funny shit, I'll be checking to see if they move the line. LMFAO!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, it was at +210 two weeks back, now it's at +190.

There's still a LONNNNG race ahead ... who knows.
 

There's always next year, like in 75, 90-93, 99 &
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And, as you "bettors" must very well know - this by no means mean that twice as many Americans like Bush
icon_wink.gif
.. it means Pin thinks (or action dictates) the "true odds" are 2 to 1.

Certainly Bush is favored, I could tell you that.

Pointless citation CDL, very pointless.
 

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I don't agree with everything the author said in the article, but he's about 80% right.

However, I do think the majority of Iraqi's view the U.S. as a necessary evil; they view the troops as necessary to transition the country back to the Iraqi's sans Saddam

But, the Bush Admin is ****ing everything up. The Iraqi's must feel that they are better off now than the where with Saddam. But they aren't because the U.S. can't get the water running and we can't get the lights back on. The fault for that lies with Dubya. He is truly and idiot and I don't know how anyone on the right can have respect for such a goofball.
 
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I would say they see them as an unnecessary evil. And this is only bound to intensify as US presence there continues.
 

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Was to expose the fact that the Democratic and Republican parties had become one and the same, and offer a third alternative. But what happened instead was, he opened the door for the election to be stolen and a neo-fascist to be installed as prez.

Nader's notion that there would be "no difference" between Gore and Bush turned out to be quite erroneous. One might say he is an example of the radical who lives by the sword suddenly dying by it, but I haven't really heard any commentary from him since then one way or another.

Actually I agree with a lot of what Nader has to say , particularly about money having subverted representative government, but I didn't think his run last time made sense in light of the situation.
 

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I don't get it!
The war in Iraq is about terrorism! It always has been, and it always will be. Hussein was the worst of the regimes to support terrorism, along with Syria, Iran, and Suadi Arabia. Unless we want another 9/11, the only way to stop these animals is with force. We lost more than 3,000 American souls in the 9/11 attacks. These attacks were payed for and supported by middle eastern governments. If you doubt that, then there is no discussion.
The antiwar crowd throws out these poison questions, and if the administration doesn't give an air tight answer they parse and analyze the answer to death!
The situation in Iraq has beenn analyzed ad nauseum, and the finnal answer is that there is no final answer. What happens will happen - hopefully with the minimum loss of life. All of this guttersniping and nit picking aides the enemy and hurts the US Soldier; but thats what the antiwar crowd wants, isn't it?

Because of Vietnam, and because I do tend to be pro-military in my thinking, I try to be careful about marching lock step with the hawks; but we're still a month away from the second 911 aniversary, and less than six months since the start of hostilities in Iraq - so I don't think I'm being fascist about this - so I'll continue to maintain my steadfast support for the troops as I listen to the sheep bleat.
 
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--for the umpteenth time, Iraq was never tied to 9/11
--the same amount of people died in Afghanistan that died on 9/11 (eye for an eye?
--Weapons of Mass Destruction were the first "official" pretext for war.
And finally, the worst regime to support foreign terrorism is the US, hands down.
(think about this: why would the press trump up all the charges of false wmd claims if it only makes them look worse and war-*****ring as well?)
 

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